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Post by saddlerocker on Oct 21, 2010 18:31:30 GMT -5
Added the Option to Change Your Vote
Please vote for what you think the best setup is.
The first option is the current Fleet league setup.
BB4/CV4 is considered the most balanced tier, that is why it is currently used.
However BB5/CV5 would be a nice change.
AA balance is generally the same from BB4 to BB5.
Should only one tier BB/CV be used, or should all tiers under the max be available?
For the upcoming season, Season 5 (Starting November 14, 2010), SHIP LIMITS WILL REMAIN THE SAME AS THEY ARE NOW, BB4/CV4.
I will leave this poll up so that we can debate about it for Season 6. Also, please talk about this in a mature manner. I know the majority of fleet leaders are well above the age of 20 so there is no reason to argue like 14 year olds. Thanks guys. - Doc
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Post by docryan13 on Oct 21, 2010 19:15:23 GMT -5
Thanks for screwingggg it up Saddle
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Post by angus725 on Oct 21, 2010 20:38:47 GMT -5
Going to state my opinion again.
If we goto BB5s, the problem would be that KM and MN gets shafted, and USN/UK/IJN ships are the only ones used.
With BB4s, at least the ships are decently balanced so that KM>IJN>UK>KM with vanguard, iowa, and the MN BB4 somewhere in the middle...
Another argument towards the BB4s would be the NF cup rules, which we probably want to follow. (to at least base most of our rules around)
My Personal suggestion would be to turn the limit of PCAs as secondary ships, use BB1s or 2s.
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Post by devildog8 on Oct 21, 2010 20:39:02 GMT -5
voted good job guys, now this is what I call progress
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Post by saddlerocker on Oct 21, 2010 21:12:21 GMT -5
I personally love the alsace, and im sure there are more than a few players out there who would use the H44.
The MN BB4 on the otherhand is totally useless, and id be very surprised if anyone used one by choice in FL.
That being said, it will take a large majority voting for an option here for us to actually change. I just want to see what peoples opinions are.
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Post by elnoble on Oct 21, 2010 22:11:37 GMT -5
I talked this with my fleet, and everyone likes the BB5 and CV5 idea. Why?, because mostly all the people who play leagues are the most experienced and old ones, meaning that mostly all of them don't play at bb4 stages anymore. BB4s have become obsolete for them long time ago, and even on my fleet who's a new one, very few ones (and I repeat it, VERY FEW) still have not entered the BB5 era.
I still remember the fleet admirals meeting when we changed from the BB3/CV3s setup to the actual BB4/CV4. And on those times, no one mentioned they wanted them because they where balanced (and I still remember Vets fleet was present with 2 officers). On that time, the big reason for maintaining the BB3 setup (from the guys who wanted to maintain it), was that little fleets didn't have enough BB4s on their members, and the reason for changing it to BB4s, was that the server was grown enough to play it that way.
So well, if the mayor reason on that time was that the server was enough able to play the BB4s setup, and nobody care a dam about balance. Why the balance stuff would be so important now, considering that the same people who played on that time, is the same I see posting on this forum today?
Only answer, is that they have become more pro, or they think they have. But I prefer to believe that they are only accustom to it, and they don't like to waste time on a change. Or maybe they want to copy and follow the way the mighty arizona server plays his league.
I would be playing my 5th league on this server, and since some leagues, I am really bored of still playing on those obsolete ships. Please think about it, jumping on a Graf Zeppelin 2 again, when Europas, PCVs and CV6s sails on the seas of Navyfield, is a PARACHRONISM.
For the enlighten of those ones who don't know the meaing of this word, here is the meaning, that summarize what I am talking about.
A PARACHRONISM (from the Greek "παρά," "on the side," and "χρόνος," "time") is anything that appears in a temporal context (time period) in which, though not sufficiently out of place as to be impossible, it is not normally found. The item is often an object, but may be an idiomatic expression, a technology, a philosophical idea, a musical style, a material, a custom, or anything else sufficiently closely bound to a particular period as to seem strange when encountered in a later era.
Parachronisms are usually seen as objects or ideas which were once common, but are now considered rare or inappropriate. They often take the form of OBSOLETE TECHNOLOGY or outdated fashion. This is different from an anachronism, in which the object or idea in question had not yet been invented when the situation takes place, and is therefore impossible to have existed at that time. Thus a suburban housewife in the United States around 1960 would not ordinarily use a washboard for laundry after washing machines became the norm, and few teenagers of that time would be listening to ragtime music.
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Post by outcast5 on Oct 21, 2010 22:43:00 GMT -5
What tier of ships people own is almost irrelevant. The balance of bb4's is far greater then that of BB5's, that's all i was ever arguing.
Also as angus mentioned we should be preparing ourselves for NF Cup standards. Although it only directly affects the top 3 or 4 teams that get sent to the NF Cup, it does affect our server's chances of progressing in the NF cup and hurting our image as a whole.
Furthermore i think what we had this season was great. The only issues were some administration errors which had nothing to do with the rules. So if something isn't broken, why fix it?
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Post by elnoble on Oct 21, 2010 23:16:12 GMT -5
You say Outcast, that ships people own is almost irrelevant. Well, that may be the present view of your fleet, but as for what I said on my post, it was not your argument on the times we changed from the BB3 setup to the BB4 one, and as we are here now facing the same situation again, I think it was good thing to refresh memories with what happened the last time, as its the only reference we have from the past.
Of course times have changed and many things have gone under the river. And also, its true the last league was good, the same as the ones before that, but if that means that we would be trapped forever on the BB4 setup, I say NO. 3 leagues of the same, has been far enough for everyone to feel the pleasure of the BB4 setup. Now its time to turn the page, and experience something new.
I am sure you will stay with your convictions, so do I, so lets the mayority to decide democratically what they want to have;
a) if they want to remain enslaved forever at the BB4 setup, for the following 8 next leagues, or b) if they want to have a fresh new type of league this year.
Lest the people to decide, its the fair way to go.
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steel
Fleet Leader
Posts: 57
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Post by steel on Oct 21, 2010 23:43:32 GMT -5
Elnoble i think outcast means with BB4, they are all pretty even or have their vantage points. Were with BB5's there are some that have utterfail all over them compared to certain other ones.
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Post by angus725 on Oct 21, 2010 23:48:51 GMT -5
Elnoble i think outcast means with BB4, they are all pretty even or have their vantage points. Were with BB5's there are some that have utterfail all over them compared to certain other ones. Eg, H44s are weak in almost every aspect, and it will only counter Monty/MN BB5, while the monty/MN BB5 can only counter full on rushes, which dont happen very often with BB5s, as their firepower(spread+damage per shell) is much powerful than their durability. In other words, only L2s and SYs are mostly used, with MAYBE 1 H44 per team, as they can push other BB5s if they are playing defensively. hmm, Just got an idea that's worth talking about, going to post it.
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Post by elnoble on Oct 22, 2010 0:07:53 GMT -5
Elnoble i think outcast means with BB4, they are all pretty even or have their vantage points. Were with BB5's there are some that have utterfail all over them compared to certain other ones. I am completely aware of that Steel, i am for a change, and not on a quest for the the holy grail of balance. Some of us, want a fresh new style for the league, with a new sort of ships available for choose, and not the ultra used ones for decades. Thats the reason behind of my vote.
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game
New Member
Rear Admiral (Sqd leader)
Posts: 1
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Post by game on Oct 22, 2010 0:23:19 GMT -5
is true that it should change the format of league fleets, CV4 BB4 and say that are already obsolete, so I think that for better fun for everyone, it is best to reformat and CV5 bb5
game_ (IMPERIUM FLEET) serv. BISMARK
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Post by outcast5 on Oct 22, 2010 1:19:42 GMT -5
If you talk of change why do you keep bringing up my view on bb3's from 2 years ago? Also this poll is not a good gauge of opinion. Fleet leaders will simply tell their fleets to all sign up for these forums and vote for whatever agenda that fleet may have. If anything limit a poll to fleet leaders that they would submit after talking it over with their fleet.
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Post by brazen on Oct 22, 2010 1:57:32 GMT -5
If you talk of change why do you keep bringing up my view on bb3's from 2 years ago? Also this poll is not a good gage of opinion. Fleet leaders will simply tell their fleets to all sign up for these forums and vote for whatever agenda that fleet may have. If anything limit a poll to fleet leaders that they would submit after talking it over with their fleet. Excellent point. BB4/CV4 are used across the servers as the standard in FL matches because of the excellent balance in that tier. CV4s offer some interesting tactical situations because the cannot carry enough fighters to scout a full length game so fighter management is paramount, testing the skills of a CV driver to the max. Players on AZ still use the BB4/CV4 combination with no complaints that they no longer play that tier of ships and they have been playing FL and the game longer than most of us. It's my belief that we should remain true to the original rules set down by Sov that have given the whole of the NFNA servers a competitive and enjoyable event. A vote in the fleet leaders section is the only way to resolve this.
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Post by elnoble on Oct 22, 2010 2:06:25 GMT -5
"If you talk of change why do you keep bringing up my view on bb3's from 2 years ago?" First don't mix up different things. Second, simply because I was talking about different stuff. If you have not noticed it yet, one is my opinion about the need of change in relation with the options offered on this poll post. And the other was a brief summary I did, about what was talk on the time we had to change from BB3 to BB4 setup. "Also this poll is not a good gauge of opinion." Why not?, as for what I know, this is an open forum for discussing stuff that affects, is related, and its relevant for people form the Bismarck Server. And as everyone is invited to come and participate, it's not right from your part to devalue their opinions. "Fleet leaders will simply tell their fleets to all sign up for these forums and vote for whatever agenda that fleet may have." Do you suspect from someone in particular?, as I see here only respectable guys, who are only interested on what is happening or may happen on the server they play. If you are worried about someone, please contact him and teach him on how to do things on an honorable way, I am sure that guy will learn and will not do what you are worried about. If you are not willing to do that and help the community, please don't take the legitimacy this poll have. "If anything limit a poll to fleet leaders that they would submit after talking it over with their fleet." This is not a fleet leaders forum site Outcast, this is open to everyone. So if you wish that, you can place your motion here: www.opennavyfield.com/fleetleaders/
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